Brethren Moderators, Dearly Beloved Brethren, Sisters and Friends:

     I am here to continue my affirmative argument. He hasn't given me anything to notice, except a little sarcasm, so I won't have any trouble going on with my regular argument at this time.

     He says that I am befuddled. He says I am befuddled. I feel that he does have the greatest sympathy for me in my befuddlement.

     Ladies and gentlemen, did you know that I offered him this morning a long list of questions. I didn't give him half of them, and I have been insisting on his answering them, and he hasn't answered one of them yet. I was befuddled enough to give him some questions that he cannot answer. I want to say, ladies and gentlemen, that if I stay befuddled like I am now, I am going to give him some more questions he cannot answer. I am going to give him plenty that he cannot answer. I am going to do that right now.

     "Is not God's foreknowledge just as immutable as His predestination? 1f so, would it not be just as impossible to I change one event from the way He foreknew it would be as I it would be to change one event from the way He predestinated that it should be?" I want to ask you the same question you asked me:

     "If God foreknew all things, is it possible for one thing that He foreknew to fail to come to pass?" Now, I say that we are before an intelligent people, and if God foreknew a thing, if it didn't come to pass, he was mistaken about it; God just mistook the thing, didn't He? Could there be such a thing? Could there be such a thing as a certain foreknowledge of an uncertain event? If not, and all things were certainly foreknown of God from eternity, then were not all things certain from eternity, and if so, by whom or what were they made certain? Did God eternally think that all things would come to pass as they do? If so, would He not be deceived if they should fail to come to pass as He thought they would? If not, why not? I want to say, beloved friends, that I am glad, if I know my heart, that I have never stood in the face of intelligent congregation and in the presence of Almighty. God and denied His blessed word. In Isaiah xvi. 24 it says: “The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand." Has anything ever taken place that God never thought of? I want to say, beloved friends, if my brother doesn't believe what I am advocating on this subject, you do not believe God on oath. You should get a notary out here and get a bill against Him and put Him in jail. Does anything, except God, exist without a cause to produce it? And is not every cause adequate to the effect which it produces? And is not God the first cause of all causes? And if He is the first cause of all causes, then did He cause them accidentally or on purpose? You will have to admit, Elder West, that none of us would be here if God had not created us. You will have to admit that those robbers and rapists which you spoke of this morning would not have been here if God hadn't created them, would they? We find that the Psalmist David says-I believe it is in Proverbs-"The Lord has created all things for Himself, yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." "He created all things for Himself," yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." If they didn't serve in the day of evil, tell me whether or not the purpose of God fails. They are going to serve His purpose. You need not be uneasy about that.

     Do you believe there ever was, or ever will be, one single action of any being, creature, or thing, in heaven, earth, or hell, in time or eternity, that was eternally sovereignly, freely, independently, and immutably predestinated, decreed or purposed of God? If so, please tell us what it was.

     If God had rather that sin had not entered the world, then is it not also a fact that He had rather not had any dealings with man as a sinner, seeing that such dealings come in connection with that which He rather had never existed? If God had rather sin had not entered the world, then is it not also a fact that He had rather to never have spoken one word to or concerning man as a sinner, Himself by His prophets, His Son, His apostles, or His ministers, seeing that all such words have been spoken to and concerning man as being in a state or condition which God had rather he had never been in?

     Has not God always thought of man as the creature who would sin, or had sinned, or had been redeemed from sin? If so, and He had rather sin had never existed, then is it not a fact that He had rather never to have had a single thought which he has had concerning man?

     You know, it gets pretty deep. You were speaking of the rooster crowing awhile ago. I did not mention that to express the deepness of the rooster's intention to crow, but the smallness of the circumstance which the wisdom of God had embraced. That is what I was talking about. .

     If God had rather sin had never existed, hence had rather never redeemed man from sin, and carry him to heaven as a redeemed sinner, then, is it not a fact, that He had rather there would be no shouts of praises in heaven by redeemed sinners, praising Him for their redemption, seeing they will be praising Him for something He had rather have not done? If God had rather sin had not entered the world, then is it not a fact that He had rather not punish any man for sin, either in time or in eternity, seeing that such punishment is inflicted because of something which He would rather had never existed?

     If the foregoing questions be true concerning God's attitude towards sin and its entrance into the world, then has He ever had one thought, spoken one word, or performed one act, in heaven, earth, or hell, in time or eternity, that has been as He originally would rather it should be, seeing they have been shaped according to and in connection with the thing which He rather had not been?

     If this last question, No. 31, presents the truth relative to the original attitude of God as to how He rather it would have been, and yet none of them have ever been as He would have preferred to have them, then how far was the fool from the truth when he said in his heart, "There is no God?" I am going to be befuddled and give you some more in the morning. I want to say, ladies and gentlemen, that he cannot answer these questions Scripturally and logically without acknowledging my proposition. But I am going him one better than that. Elder West-pardon me, ladies and gentlemen-do you believe the article that you read in the London Confession of Faith? Will you just nod your head if you believe that? I want to say, ladies and gentlemen, that he read it but never did tell us whether he believed it or not. I wonder what he read it for. He never did explain the thing that was contained in it. I want to say, ladies and gentlemen, that if he believes that article, I am ready to shake his hand and say that I endorse very word in that London Confession of Faith relative to this subject that we are discussing. There will be no need of any further discussion or charging consequences, either, for that matter. I say, ladies and gentlemen, there are people living today, and there are some here present today, who were present when that was adopted at the Fulton convention and recommended to all Primitive Baptists in all of the United States.

     I asked him the question, Did God cause the wicked? "He has created all things for Himself, yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Could the devil keep from it? He said the reason, Scripturally, why the devil deceived Eve, he was a liar from the beginning and abode not in the truth. It was right down his alley to deceive Eve, and if God had not made her so that the devil could have made his inroad, then, he couldn't have done it. I believe it would have been possible for God to have made a woman who never could have been deceived, but the fact that He made one the devil did deceive proves the fact that He made one that he could deceive.

     Now, he made his little argument on the blackboard up here, and he put a little note here showing his color. He is kin to the one that he is talking about. He made his little diagram and with all of these Scriptural questions outstanding before him, tending directly to the point of this discussion, and with him, after I introduced it and everything, read the clause of the London Confession of Faith, and he will not even tell me whether he believes that or not.

     Did God have any idea what Adam would do? Then, I guess God was like the little boy about a circumstance which I have in mind right now. I guess when Adam partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the Lord disturbed all of his settled counsel in heaven and said, "Oh, my, what am I going to do? Adam went and did something that I didn't know he would do; something that I have no purpose in. I just have to take hold now and do the best I can." My brethren do not believe that. My brother believes that God knew that Adam would and he also believes that the devil was the moving cause of Eve committing her sin. He believes that. You know that he does. He has already advocated that, so he cannot charge anything on me. That is exactly what I believe about it, but I don't believe that predestination is causative. I believe also that the devil was made for the very purpose that he served. I believe he still is God's devil. '''Whatsoever is under the whole heaven are mine; both the deceived and the deceiver are His." And He says over there in the fourth chapter of Revelation-I have the citation here somewhere in my notes.

     ELDER WEST: You can give it to me later if you prefer.

     ELDER RHODES: Thank you. I will do that.

     He spoke about a bank robber awhile ago. Was it legal to rob a bank? Do they rob a bank because it is legal, or because they want the money? Is it wrong for people to rob the bank? Most assuredly it is wrong, and it is contrary to every phase of law. And yet, my friends, they rob banks because they want the money out of them just as Judas Iscariot wanted the money for betraying the Lord Jesus Christ, and yet, that very thing was prophesied thousands of years before that where it says, "And this was done that it might be fulfilled, and they, counted the price of Him, that they, the children of Israel, did value, it was found thirty pieces of silver." Now, I want to say, my beloved friends, the actual price of the betrayal of the Lord Jesus Christ-there is no doubt in my mind but what Judas Iscariot would have loved to have had thirty-five pieces of silver, at least. There is no doubt in my mind that he would have taken a hundred pieces if he could have gotten it.

There is no doubt in my mind that the chief priest would have loved to have contracted with him for twenty pieces of silver. But the fact, beloved friends, stands immutable, that it was thirty pieces of silver, and I say the reason why it was thirty pieces of silver was because that it was the wisdom and purpose of God, for some reason, that it should be thirty pieces of silver. The Scriptures could not have been fulfilled if it had not been that way.

     The London Confession of Faith. I have already noticed that.

     It was not in God's purpose to authorize Adam to sin. It was not in God's purpose to liberate him by commandment, but I want to say when that word "freely"-he played upon the Greek and the Hebrew, and there is not a Hebrew scholar in the building, even including himself. I know that. Was the reason he did that in order to evade? I want to say, ladies and gentlemen, the fact remains that God has said, "Thou shalt not eat of it and be free." That is what He says, and he knows that as well as I do. If you don’t believe that, read the Book.

     MODERATOR CAYCE: I don't believe it says that.

     ELDER RHODES: I should have said it means that God had not authorized him to do it.

     MODERATOR CAYCE: That is not what it says.

     ELDER RHODES: That is in a lower quotation, Elder Cayce. He said, how, if he commanded him to do something and he had not predestinated it, how could the man keep from doing it? I believe that was his question. That is the way I have it in my notes: I wonder if I have it correctly. Brother West, will you tell me if I have that correctly?

     ELDER WEST: Hold his time.

     ELDER RHODES: My notes show that you said, did God predestinate anything that He commanded in opposition.

     ELDER WEST: No, sir.

     ELDER RHODES: I will read what I have here: He commanded Pharaoh to let them go, yet, He predestinated that he should not let them go. That answers the direct argument, whatever your question was.

     MODERATOR CAYCE: The question was, Did God predestinate they do something which He commanded them not to do?

     ELDER RHODES: I will let the Scriptures answer that. In Pharaoh's case He said, "Go to Pharaoh and say, Thus sayeth the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go; yet I will harden his heart so that he shall not let them go. Doesn't that come to the point? That is exactly what you asked for and you have it.

     We will go along now with our affirmative argument. Daniel xi. 36, 37: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time." "There shall be a time of trouble." In the future? What brings trouble? Sin, corruption, disobedience, and degradation. "There shall be a time of trouble." Do you think that He will be pleased about it, or do you think that one single bit of all that trouble the Lord said "shall be" will fail? Do you think so? I say emphatically not. "Such as never was since there was a nation, even to that same time: And at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." My friends, pardon me, that was Daniel xii. 1 and 2, instead of the reference I gave. Pardon me, it was my fault.

     I say, my friends, that all of this trouble must come or the Scriptures will be broken, and Jesus said, also, "the Scriptures cannot be broken." They must be fulfilled. I say, if there is one single ounce of this trouble-and this included Hitler-and God knows, my friends, if I had that scamp in my hands, with as little grip as I have, I could squeeze his neck in two. Yes, I could do that. But I want to tell you, brethren and sisters, he has brought the greatest trouble the world has ever known. Is the world not in the greatest trouble today it has ever been in? And yet, my friends, the righteous, and holy, and sinless, the Almighty, and powerful God decreed and spoke by his prophet that there shall be a time of trouble such as was not since man was upon the earth. I tell you-my brethren, would you have any confidence in Almighty God if He said that a thing shall be and it failed to come to pass? I say that I wouldn't have any confidence in Him. No, sir, not even if God said, "He shall save His people from their sins," and then not do it. There wouldn't be much comfort in His words for you. But He says, "I will," concerning everything-concerning all things that come to pass, just exactly like God purposed it and as He predestinated it. I am not afraid of the word "predestination." I am here to do my dead level best and carry my point with me on foreknowledge, and he will not stay with me on that.

     Quoting Exodus vii. 1 to 6: "And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Thou shalt speak all that I command thee; and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you." The Lord says, "I will harden his heart." He said, "I will harden his heart so that he shall not let them go." I want to ask you, my worthy opponent, and all of you brethren and sisters and kind spectators, if God commanded Pharaoh to let His people go, and yet turned right around and said, "I have hardened his heart so that he shall not let them go," tell me, brethren and sisters, because we cannot understand the mystery of God's will as to why He should do a thing like that, is it any of our business to undertake to deny it?

     I am reminded of the little boy that I heard of once who got into a dispute with an aged man on the street and the aged man said, "That is not so." The little boy said, "It is so." The man said, "It is not so." The little boy said again, "It is so." The man said, "Young man, why do you say it is so?" The little boy replied, "Because papa said so." I want to tell you, my brethren and sisters, that God has said He hardened Pharaoh's heart, and so it is so.

     Exodus x. 1 and 2: "And the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him: and that thou mayest tell in the ears of thy son, and of thy son's son, what things I have wrought in Egypt, and my signs which I have done among them; that ye may know how that I am the Lord." The Lord did that for His honor and glory and majesty, that His name might be magnified. Did He have a right to do it? We are not here to discuss consequences, what the consequences would be if God did these things. We are here to discuss as to whether He did them or not. You haven't denied whether he did them or not.

     Exodus iii. 19 and 20: "And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand. And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go." The Lord appointed a time when He was going to multiply all of these things, and He did it.

     Romans xi. 33 to 36: "0 the depths of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counsellor? Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things; to whom be glory forever. Amen." I say that according to the Scriptures, all things are of Him and through Him, and I would rather have the Scripture than the testimony of all men. That has under consideration all things, and it so states. Could God's wisdom be perfect and not embrace all things? Why, then, He might not know much more than you do. "For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things; to whom be glory forever. Amen." If I were to close the Book and pack my grip, I say, brethren, the debate is over. Right here on this particular passage of Scripture he would squirm and twist for the rest of his days and never come out from underneath it. It is "of Him, and to Him, and through Him are all things." I want him to tell us just what things are under consideration in this text. I say, my friends, that I believe that he said just exactly what he was talking about, and "all things are of Him," in some sense of the word, "and for Him," in some sense of the word, and "to Him," in some sense of the word. So, my brethren and sisters, I want to say that this argument stands boldly forth, and in all of the wisdom of this earth there has never been one who can deny it.

     Time expired.