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Daily/Throgmorton Debate-Sixth Speech PDF Print E-mail
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Gentlemen Moderators, Worthy Opponent, Respected Audience:

We are getting along so nicely with the discussion. We feel well toward each other. We differ but it is in friendship. If any attending this discussion should be too full of prejudice to allow room for anything else, the discussion would do such no good. So let us try to lay aside all prejudice and study the word of God to ascertain its teaching.

I attend first to the questions which my Brother handed to me.

The first is: “Does God require all men, elect a non-elect to seek him? None are commanded to seek God except his children.

The second is: “Can a man be blamed for not accepting a gift which is not offered to him?” A man is not blamed for not accepting Christ. He is blamed for violating God’s law.

I have a question now for him. Can a man be blamed for not accepting Christ who never hears of him? Are heathens, who never hear of Christ, sent to hell for not accepting him?

“Is Christ offered to men, elect and non-elect, in the Gospel?” Not offered to anybody.

“Does God command every sinner, elect and non-elect to repent?” A man cannot repent without life, whatever kind of repentance it be, natural or spiritual.

“Does God censure sinners, elect and non-elect, for not believing on his Son?” Not believing is not the cause of condemnation. It is the evidence of it.

“What is the penalty due to sin?” Death.

“Where do you learn that only elect persons die in infancy?” All that die in infancy are saved in Heaven. I believe that. Those that are saved in Heaven are elect. Therefore only elect persons die in infancy.

“Can a man believe in Christ without believing that Christ died for him?” The devils did.

(Mr. Throgmorton: “Did they believe that Christ died for them?”)

Devils believe.

(Mr. Throgmorton: “On Christ, is what my question said.”)

Don’t interrupt, please.

“Is there any way for a sinner to repent or seek God except through the crucified Christ?” None repent or seek after God in a state of unregeneracy.

“Why does God favor a non-elect person with long life, and deny the same, blessing to the elect?” Because it seems good in his sight.

“Would Christ have suffered any more in dying for all of Adam’s race than in dying for just one sinner?” No way of knowing.

“When Paul says, Christ loved me and gave himself for me, does he mean that Christ loved no one else and gave himself for nobody else?” No, he gave himself for all the elect.

“Can you name a passage in the New Testament where the word “world” means only, the elect?” Yes, sir; 1st John 2:2. The “whole world” means only the elect among the Jews and among the Gentiles. He tries to make an impression relative to experience, that because Christ atoned for our sins and satisfied God by reconciling us to God by his death, that therefore the Holy Spirit in revealing to us that we are sinners reveals to us what is false. It is one thing to be reconciled to God and another thing to be reconciled in the court of our own conscience and in our actual experience, as revealed by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals to us that we have sinned and reveals to us the great guilt of that sin, then, in the second rev elation, that Christ on the cross atoned for our sins; that we may be made to rejoice. Having been shown that we had sinned, we are then enabled to rejoice that Jesus atoned for our sins, and that experience, if we have it, is but the necessary result of what Christ did on the cross. The ransom being paid the transgressor is released. But he illustrates again by speaking of the prisoner who is in debt for $1,000.00, and is in prison for that indebtedness. He says he goes to work and works very hard, suffers a great deal to get the money with which to pay the, debt. Now I ask him, is the payment of the money necessary to the release of the prisoner, and must the debt be paid before the prisoner is released, and does the release of the prisoner necessarily follow the payment of the debt, which is made before the transgressor is released? If you want to be fair about that illustration you will come up and answer those questions.

He says his duty is to examine the proof text. His duty is to examine the arguments and proof texts that I submit. He examines the proof texts, but the arguments he passes by. He quotes Jno. 3:26. “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” His position is that he believes to get the everlasting life. My position is that he believes because he has the everlasting life. If his position were true, it would not be true that he that believeth hath everlasting life. It ought to be stated that he that believeth will get it.

In reference to 1st Cor. 8:10-11, where the Apostle speaks of a weak brother perishing for whom Christ died, I desire to read the 11th, 12th and 13th verses. “And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren (the brethren, not the world), but when you sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak consciences, ye sin against Christ.” Whose weak consciences? The weak consciences of the brethren. The brethren out in the world? No. The brethren in the church, God’s children. “Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend— What brother, Brother Throgmorton? The brother out in the world,—that is not the meaning— It is the brother in the church,—I will eat no flesh while the world standeth.” I argued it was a brother in the church. He argued it was a brother out in the world, a brother in Adam. Why are the brethren in the church concerned about perishing who is just a brother in the world, a brother in Adam? There is no question but that wrong about the interpretation of the text. I believe you would stand well before this audience to confess that you made a mistake there. Indeed, I believe it would help you.      

Then he refers to 1st Tim. 2:1-6, where it is stated Christ gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. “Ransom for all” is here translated from antilutron huper panton. The preposition anti is here joined to the verb lutron. This is a strong word translated “ransom” in this text. Anti means over against, corresponding to, in place of, in retribution or return for. Lutron is from the verb luo, which means to loosen unbind, unfasten, set at liberty. So the word, antilutron means the payment of such a price as retribution or return for as results in loosing or setting at liberty all for whom the ransom was paid. This makes it infallibly certain that all for whom the ransom was paid, for whom this blessed Mediator gave himself as a ransom, will be eternally saved. It doesn’t say he gave himself a ransom for the entire world. “All” there simply signifies those for whom he gave himself a ransom, and signifies that they shall be released on account of the ransom made for them. He says, “God says ‘I would, but you wouldn’t’.” It wouldn’t do for God to say “I could, but you couldn’t.” Because he said God cannot save the sinner in unbelief. Some influence aside from God must bring the sinner into the circle of belief or God cannot reach him. That gives another being greater power than God, some other being able to go out in the circle of unbelief and bring, sinners from that state into belief, before God can .reach the sinner! Now who is it that brings the sinner into the state of belief so that God can save him? If you can tell, you can tell who has greater power than God has in the salvation of sinners!

In Matt. 13: 44, reference is made to the treasure hid in a field and a man selling all he had and buying the field. His argument is that Christ sold all he had to buy the world for the treasure that is in the world. Now, then, if that be the true interpretation of that parable, then Christ didn’t care anything about any of the field except the treasure that was in it. His position is that Christ, in dying for the world, has tried to make the world a treasure. The world and treasure of the world are, alike according to his position, when it comes to the idea of trying to make the whole world a treasure. But the parable lands him on the position that there is a treasure in the field, and for the sake of the treasure the field is bought for the treasure that is in it. What proves too much, proves nothing. Now this has reference to the kingdom of heaven, the church of Jesus Christ on earth. There came a time in my life when I was willing to give up everything for the precious treasure I found in obedience to my master-

‘‘Perish every fond ambition,

All I’ve hoped, or sought, or known,

Yet how rich is my condition,

God and heaven are still my own.”

I am willing to give up the whole world, that I may enjoy this treasure.

He says again that Paul meant in 1st Tim. 4:10, when he speaks of God being saviour of all, men, that Jesus is referred to, and that he is the Saviour, of all men. I ask him this question: Is Christ the Saviour of the damned in hell? What is a Saviour?

I hold in my hand a pamphlet issued by Harry Todd when Harry was a member of the Old Baptist Church and professed to believe its true doctrine, having left the Missionary Baptists when he was a young man and made us believe he was converted to the truth. He lived with us and preached for us awhile. He held a discussion with Elder J. S. Edmunds, after which discussion he issued this pamphlet as a proof, a defense of the Bible doctrine of atonement. I read this as argument because it is good. I want to get it before this intelligent audience. “Can God damn a sinner justly without Christ dying for him? If so would it be unjust in God to send his Son to die for one, or a dozen, or a half, or any number of the guilty lost race of man? If it would not be an act of injustice for him thus to do, could he not die for a part by mercy and save them for his glory, and by his justice damn the ungodly, whose sins were unatoned? Or finally, if God could not damn a rebel sinner without Christ dying for him, I ask will all be saved for whom he died? If they will not, and God could not have damned them without his Son suffering for them, and since he died for them some will be lost; would not this make the atonement the angel of death, and the ground cause of man’s damnation? Now, Mr. Preacher, you will never with all your twisting and misrepresentation, get from under these unalterable and eternal truths. They will goad the neck of all the Missionaries. I accuse your theory of debauchery and crime. It incriminates God and makes him meaner than the Devil and his soul black in hypocrisy for offering to save by giving his Son to die, knowing they would not accept it; and knowing he could not damn them without it, he gave his Son in order to damn them. Oh angels! blush that men would thus defame the holy name of God.”

I now proceed with my Fifteenth Argument: My Fifteenth Argument is that the sins of those for whom Christ died are reckoned as debts and the death of Christ is the full payment by which those sins or debts are said to be covered. In the prayer the Lord taught his disciples, as given by Matthew, he said: “And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. (Matt. 6:12.) As worded by Luke, the same petition reads:

“Forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.” (Luke 11:4.) This interchange of the words debts and sins proves them to be scripturally synonymous in a sense. In the covenant of Grace, Christ became the surety for his people, an engagement which rendered it an obligation upon him to settle for all their sins. Heb. 7:22. “By so much was Jesus made a surety for a better testament.” Bondsman here translated surety, means bondsman, sponsor, and surety. He was not surety for God, as he needed none, but for the sinners for whom he died. As surety for them, he covered their sins by his death as the payment of the debt covers it.

Psalms 32:1-2, “Blessed is he whose transgression .is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.” Who is it whose transgression is forgiven? It is the one whose sin is covered. What covers sin as a debt? The payment of that debt.

Rom. 4:6-7-8, “Even as David also. describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.” He covered the sins of those for whom he died by bearing those sins in his own body on the cross, thus rendering satisfactory payment to Divine justice.

1st Peter 2 :24, “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sin, should live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.” Those for whom Christ died have their sins covered by his death, which is the only real covering for sins. As surety for them he had the right to make full payment for all their debts. The payment he thus made must result in righteousness being imputed to them without works. Nothing stands against those whose sins are covered and to whom this righteousness is imputed without works. Therefore all for whom Christ died will be eternally saved.

My next argument is that as it is the work of the Holy Spirit to call effectually all who are ever called, and as in this work, he acts in a sovereign and irresistible manner, all for whom Christ died will be called, and therefore eternally saved. The outward influence of the Holy Spirit as exercised in the preaching of the Gospel and the influence of the people of God, is resisted by man while his heart is in a state of enmity. Stephen pressed this fact upon the Jews whom he denominated stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart, saying: “Ye do always resist the Holy Ghost; as your fathers did, so do, ye.” Acts 7:51. Immediately he explained this by saying: “Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted ?“ The Spirit’s influence as thus manifested is merely an external influence, while the Divine call I am now considering is an internal work. The external influence may be resisted, but when the Spirit himself comes in the omnipotence of his grace, resistance vanishes. The same power which created the world, and said, “Let there be light,” is exerted in the call of the sinner from the darkness of death to the marvelous light of life. This is signified in the following passages: “Who hath saved us and called us, not according to our works, but according to his own purposes and grace which was given us in Christ before the world began.” II Tim. 1:9, “Whom he did predestinate them he also called.” Rom. 8:30, “All things work together for good to them that love God, to them that are the called according to his purpose.” Rom. 8:28, “God who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts.” 2nd Cor. 4:6. This is as I argued in one of my speeches this forenoon. Jesus is by the Spirit raised from the dead. We believe ac cording to his mighty power which he wrought in Christ when he raised him from the dead. He is able to make the believer believe in the same way he raised Christ from the dead and by the same power. His power in creating the heavens and the earth and the calling forth of the light was unresisted and unresistible, and the power by which he new the soul and puts his Divine light therein is equally unresisted. All t Father giveth me shall come to me. All for whom Christ died shall be effectually called, the work in calling being irresistible. All who are effectually called shall be eternally saved. Therefore all whom Christ died shall be eternally saved.

I desire my brother’s attention to some more questions I have here on the board. The first question I have here is: If faith is necessary to make Christ’s death an atonement for sinners, is his death an atonement for those who die without hearing the gospel? That question is plain. If faith is necessary to make Christ’s death an atonement for sinners, is his death an atonement for those who die without hearing the gospel?

Would it be injustice in God to send any one to hell without a chance of salvation?

Is faith the work of the sinner or the work of God? I hope that my brother will attend to these three questions in his next speech.

I advance to my next argument, which is that all for whom Christ died will be eternally saved because the eternal perfection of all for whom Christ died is necessarily connected with his death for them. Did you get that? The eternal perfection of all for whom Christ died is necessarily connected with his death for them, in consequence of which all for whom he died will be eternally saved.

Heb. 10:14, “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.” The sanctified mentioned in this passage are the ones that are sanctified by Go the Father as mentioned in Jude 1: “Sanctified by God the Father, preserved in Christ Jesus, and called.” This sanctification precedes the calling, which proves it to be the setting apart in the eternal purpose of God, to his own use and service and glory. The sanctified ones are the ones for whom he made the one offering, who are therefore sanctified before he made offering. It is by the will or eternal purpose of God that they are sanctified or set apart to be represented by the one offering of Christ.

Heb. 10:5-10, “W when he cometh into the world, he saith, sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, but a body hast thou prepared me; In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering, and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou would’st not, neither had’st pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” By the eternal and unchangeable will of Jehovah those for whom Christ died were sanctified, and through the offering of the body of Christ for them this sanctification was made manifest. This offering was once for all, “for all” being in Italics. It means once for all time, never to be repeated, perfected forever those for whom he died, by fulfilling the law once perfectly for them.

(Time expired.)


Gentlemen Moderators, Ladies and Gentlemen:

I join with Brother Daily in his expressions concerning our friendship. I approve them. I also approve of his statement that we ought to listen as far as possible without prejudice, because if we don’t listen without prejudice, we will not be benefited. I want to answer his questions and then hastily to notice some things besides. I want to thank him for giving me these questions in writing. First:

He answers my questions; that is, after a fashion.

“What is the penalty of sin?” “Death,” he says. He is right about that. “Death in sins.”

This was a sight: “Where do you learn that only elect persons die in infancy?” He says he believes that all that die in infancy are saved. That is about like I thought you’d answer. Because you think it. I don’t want to find out what you think, but where you get the authority for your thought. His answer is he believes that all who die in infancy shall be saved!

“Why does God favor a non-elect person with long life and deny the same blessing to the elect?” “Because it seems good in God’s sight,” he answers.

“When Paul says ‘Christ loved me and gave himself for me,’ does he mean that Christ loved no one else and gave himself for nobody else?” He answers that “No.” Then here is what I want to ask: When Paul says that Christ loved the church, and gave himself for it, it, does that mean that he loved nobody else and gave himself for nobody else but the church? I answer on the same principle that he answers here. It does not prove that he gave himself for no one else; unless this proves that he gave himself for nobody else but Paul.

“Would Christ have suffered any more, in dying for all of Adam’s race than in dying for just one sinner?” He says he has no way of knowing! This man doesn’t believe that Christ’s suffering is immeasurable! It took infinite, immeasurable, the equivalent of eternal, suffering, to save one sinner. Could there be any more than that? No, sir. Then Christ would suffer just as much to save me as he would to save billions, as far as the quantity is concerned.

“Does God command every sinner, elect and non- elect, to repent?” He replies, “Can’t repent without life.” Why didn’t you answer squarely; Yes or No? Paul says “God commandeth all men everywhere to repent.”

Does God require every man, elect and non-elect, to seek him?” What did Paul mean when he said “God bath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed and the bounds of their habitation, that they should seek him,” etc.? Acts 17:26, This says God made all nations of men that dwell on the face of the earth, “that they should seek him.” Now Brother Daily says none but the elect are to seek him.

“Does God censure sinners, elect and non-elect for not believing on his Son?” He replies that the sinner is not blamed for not accepting Christ. Not blamed!

Put that down. This man that I am debating with says “there is no blame on a man fur not accepting Christ!”

“Can a man believe on Christ without believing that Christ died for him?” “The devils did.” he says. The devils did no such thing. The devils didn’t believe on Christ. They believed about him. There is a great deal of difference between believing on Christ and believing about him. Every Christian has learned that. That was a slip of the tongue, Brother Daily. Devils don’t believe on Christ. He didn’t answer my question. Can a man believe on Christ without believing that Christ died for him?”

“Is Christ offered to men, elect and non-elect, in the Bible?” Brother Daily’s reply. “Not offered to any body.” He is out of harmony with the Old London Confession.

Can you name a passage in the New Testament wherein the word “world” means only the elect he refers to 1st John 2:2, “He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for us only but also for the sins of the whole world.’’ And he says that means the elect. Why does he say it? Not a bit of proof. He found it in that Book of Supposition. So much for the questions.

By the way, Brother Daily says I am not answering his arguments; that I am simply answering his proofs. I am going by the rules. “Rule 7. Whatever proofs may be advanced on either side should be examined with fairness and candor; and any attempt to answer an adversary by arts of sophistry, or to lesson the force of his reasoning by wit caviling or ridicule, is a violation of the rules of honorable controversy.” This rule says that the rule is to do the very thing he says I am doing, examining his proofs. Now, where are you? Good bye. Your own rule.

But I have some more questions from him.

“Can a man be blamed for not accepting Christ who has never heard of him?” No, sir; he is not blamed for that, unless he could have heard of him. That is the truth. He is not to blame unless he could have heard. I don’t see why anybody should laugh at that.

“Are heathens who never hear of Christ sent to hell for not accepting Christ?” No. sir; they are not. If they are sent to hell they are sent for their sins. Paul says they are without excuse, and if they sin against the light they have, that is why they are condemned. Not for rejecting Christ, but for sinning. Why my opponent seems to think that I hold that God was under obligations to send Christ into the world. I have never said anything like it. Christ came not to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.

He wants to know “if Christ is the Saviour of the damned in hell?” Yes, sir; he saved every one of them from the guilt of Adam’s transgression. I have proved that by Rom. 5:18. Christ took Adam’s sin away. They are not in hell for that. What is a Saviour? One who saves. Those are saved from the guilt of Adam’s transgression.

Another question: “If faith is necessary to make Christ’s death an atonement for sinners, is it necessary in order to an atonement for those who die without hearing the gospel?” In the case of all who have sinned actually the atonement cannot be received with out faith. And “faith comes by hearing.”

He asks. “Would it be unjust to send any to hell without giving him a chance of heaven?” Without a chance? What do you say, Brother? I think God can do as he wills with his own! He is under no obligation to give chances.

Another question: “Is faith the work of the sinner?” No, sir. “This is the word of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”—Jno . vi, 29. But the sinner believes. Brother Daily, if God by his Spirit and truth—and this question will come up in the next proposition—if God by his Spirit and truth, leads the sinner to believe, who does the believing? He said this morning God does the drawing and the sinner does the coming. (And here he got off some thing a little like what is forbidden in the rules, but let it pass. He says the holy Spirit reveals to us that we have sinned, he makes you feel that you are guilty of sin when, according to your doctrine, Brother Daily, in this proposition, you are not guilty. The guilt was taken away before you were born. But he says the Holy Spirit reveals to the sinner that Christ atoned for him on the cross—that is to say, the Holy Spirit comes to a man and makes him believe that he is a sinner, and that he is guilty, and that he is dead in sins and on the way to hell, and then after a bit, he turns round and tells him, “No, that is a mistake! before you was born Christ paid your debt on the cross!” Don’t you know such doctrine as that won’t do? It is not only unscriptural, but unreasonable and contradictory.

He asks concerning the man in jail, “Must the debt be paid to get him out? May he continue on in jail after the debt is paid?” Yes, the debt must be paid to get him out; but I think it would be unjust to keep him after the debt is paid! His penalty, the debt, is paid, and just as soon as the forms that must be gone through with are met, he must be taken out, or he may prosecute the State for unlawful imprisonment. After the sin debt is paid in the Court of Heaven, if he remains under the curse two minutes, he is being punished for a debt that has already been paid, and is suffering unjustly, and that is the difficulty my opponent is under in this discussion He endeavors to make the death of Christ do on the cross what the application of the death does.

Brother Daily says a man believes because he has life. That is his assertion. My friend is getting tired of this proposition. I will give him plenty on the question of life before faith on the next proposition. I want you to just tear my arguments all to flinders if you can. I will not object.

He thinks I ought to get up and acknowledge that the weak brother in I. Cor., viii, 11, was one of God’s saints who had sinned and perished. I guess that would look well to him! But how does it look for you, Brother Daily, to get up here and say that a brother for whom Christ died may perish? How does it look for you to say that a true saint may perish? I will turn you over to the Methodists.. I didn’t know you believed in the possibility of a saint’s final apostasy! This brother in I. Cor., x, 11, you say was one of the elect, a brother in Christ. So, if you are right, a child of God may perish—does perish. To escape this, he must show that to perish does not mean to be finally lost.

Speaking of I. Tim., ii, 1-6, Brother Daily says that the ransom is the payment of the price and that “all men” there doesn’t mean all men. I think I showed the facts sufficiently as to this passage. Paul says Christ gave himself a ransom for all men;—he exhorts that prayer be made for all; he declares that God desires that all men be saved;—the same all in each case; that is my point! That same “all” that he wants prayer for, including such men as Nero, perhaps the wickedest ruler that ever lived or ever will live until the end of time, he would have to be saved! Christ says: “I would; you wouldn’t.” He says that, Brother. “I would; you wouldn’t.” That is what he said. What are you going to do about it? My opponent says, “According to that, that man’s power is greater than God’s power.” That is not it at all; it is not God’s will of determination in every case to accomplish his will of desire. He wills (desires) the salvation of all men, but he does not will (determine) the salvation of all men.

But this parable about the field that Jesus bought. My friend said Jesus didn’t care for the field, but for the treasure. But he bought the field. He bought it by his death. If he did this to get the treasure, that proves the proposition on the chart is not true.

According to his argument he is saved by works. He says, “When I was willing to give up all that I might enjoy the, treasure!” That is to say, he bought it! “The kingdom of heaven, is like unto a man that sold all he had, etc., and bought a field.” He gave up all he had in order to buy this blessing. What is that? Salvation by works? Brother Daily tells me that simply accepting a gift is working for it. Much more then, is selling all you have and then buying, a work.

Well, Harry Todd’s book! And Harry joined the “Old School” Baptists after he was of age! I don’t believe he was of age. Maybe he was, but I think the brother is mistaken, he quotes from this work of Brother Todd that God could condemn sinners without having Christ to die for them. Brother Daily you needn’t argue that. God would have been just in condemning the race and in never having sent Christ, so far as justice is concerned.

Now he says in his fifteenth argument, that Christ’s death was a full payment of the sinner’s debt at the time. It was a full provision, but provision is not payment. That is it. I have shown you that Christ died and on the cross made provision; that Christ went through the veil through the resurrection, into the Most Holy Place, into the Heaven of Heavens and there made and makes the atonement. He didn’t make it on the cross at all. My Brother steers as clear of the 16th of Leviticus as if it were not in the book.

Christ is surety for believers and Christ Covers the sins of believers, he does not cover the sins of all, because, though he tasted death for every man, yet there will be some lost. When does he cover their sins? When they believe. Just then, never before, as to actual transgressors.

Brother Daily says the Holy Spirit operates in an irresistible way on the man for whom Christ died. Let us try this. He died for you. What does the Holy Spirit want you to do? He wants you to do right in this thing, and in that thing and everything. Do you always do it? When you fail, you resist God’s Spirit. If one of the elect can, why cannot another? Why not another? “The holy Spirit came into the world to reprove the world of sin, because they believe not on Christ. But his reproof is not irresistible.

Let me get to something else that I want to give you. I am very anxious to notice every proof—not necessarily every argument. but every proof. I think it is II. Cor., v. 21, that I have failed to examine. I want to examine that proof. Yes, here it is: “for he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might he made the righteousness of God in him.” This passage does not indicate that Jesus died only for the elect. It says he was made sin for us. In this way, he became the propitiation for our sins.

This means that God is so satisfied with Jesus that he can offer pardon for the sins of transgressors. See 1. John. iv, 14, And Jesus said in John iii, 17, that he came not to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.” On this basis Paul speaks in II. Cur., v, 18-20, thus: “To—wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now, then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did be you by us, we pray you, in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.” And so in that same connection, here are these verses, II. Co., v, 14-15, “For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead; and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.” All were dead, and he died for all the dead that they who obtain life “should not henceforth live unto themselves.” Some for whom he died did not obtain life. They remain dead and are lost.

I want to notice 2nd Tim. 1:9 a little. “Who hath saved us and called us with an holy calling, not ac cording to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.” Yes, sir; believers are saved. They are called. Neither their salvation nor their calling is of works, but is according to God’s purpose and grace which were in Christ before the world began. But how is this salvation? It did not take place when Jesus died; much less when the purpose was made. It took place when they believed. Before they believed they were like other people. Ephi. 1:1-3. But for all these other people Jesus died. He tasted death for every one.

Let us now turn to Heb. 10:10. “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” Yes; by the will of God we are sanctified through the one sacrifice once offered. But when were we, actual sinners, sanctified? Not when the offering was made, but later on in our own life time. See 1st Cor. 6:10-11. “Nor thieves, nor covetous nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God, and such were some of you; but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” When did that take place? See Paul’s commission, Acts 26:16-18. Paul was told to rise and stand upon his feet, and hear the purpose for which God was going to send him: “But rise, and stand upon thy feet; for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I now send thee, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.” Here is the point. It is in this, that they received the forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. That is when it is. So are we sanctified by the will of God, through the death of Jesus once for all when we believe. Heb. 10:14, “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.” By one offering those sanctified are perfected forever. But not before they believe. They are perfected forever the hour in which they first believe. I heard you all singing today:

“Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,

That saved a wretch like me;

I once was lost—”

But you was never lost. Before you was born, Christ actually paid the debt you owe on the cross and you never was a sinner, never was lost! This is your doctrine, Brother Daily. Your peoples’ hearts are better than your creed. So they sing the truth!

“I once was lost but now I’m found;

Was blind but now I see.

‘Twas grace that taught my heart to fear—”

What had you to be afraid of? Anything? That is in the song!

“Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, And grace my fears relieved; How precious did that grace appear, The hour I first believed.”

That was when your debt was paid. That was when the sanctifying took place. Before that you was in sin, tinder sin and under wrath.

That subjunctive mode again. Brother Daily said this morning that it is not always that it means doubt. But he said the subjunctive was in 1st Peter 3:18 to prove that there was no doubt there. I want the brother to be consistent, but he cannot be even in grammar.

Now I want you to look again at the Tabernacle— See Lev. 14th chapter. The High Priest was to kill a bullock and a goat of sin offering, and he was to take the blood of these animals, after they were killed, into this Most Holy Place, where only the High Priest could, go, and there he made the atonement. Once every year the High Priest went into that place alone and with the blood made t atonement. And yet my brother is arguing that Christ our High Priest made the atonement on the cross and not in Heaven Itself where he went for us.

I wanted to read a few verses from this 16th chapter of Leviticus. I am rushing with these things, because there are some special points I want to get to. I desire to read especially the 30th verse: “For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord.” The difference between Brother Daily and Leviticus: Leviticus has the atonement made in the Most Holy Place and Brother Daily has it on the cross, without the camp where the victim was slain. “And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel, two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering. And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house. And he shall take the two goats and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat,” verses 5-8. In the 11th verse: “And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for him self, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself,” verse 11. The chapter then goes on and tells the ceremonies that he shall go through with; that “he shall put the incense within the vail”; and that “he shall put the incense upon the fire before the Lord; that the cloud of the in cense may cover the mercy seat that is upon the testimony, that he die not.” That mercy seat is in the Most Holy Place. The High Priest was to take the blood and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat; and “before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times,” verse 14. Then the record proceeds and tells that the blood of the goat of sin offering shall be taken within the vail and the same things be done with it for the people, and that there shall be no man in the Tabernacle until he comes out and have made atonement for himself and for his household and for all the congregation of Israel. Read verses 15-17. This whole argument is to show that the atonement took place and takes place not on the cross but in Heaven itself. Christ is the victim; Christ’s blood is the blood shed; Christ is the High Priest that takes the blood into the Most Holy Place, Heaven itself, and there makes the atonement, as I have shown you, first for himself, then for the Adamic race, which means all men as to Adam’s sin, and is making it as the years pass for every one who believes. That is the sum and substance of it.

I think it would be well here if I again turn to and read Paul’s description of the Tabernacle and its service as found in Heb. 9:18. Here it is: “Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made, the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the show-bread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; which had the golden censor, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant. And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people; the Holy Ghost thus signifying that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing.”

(Time expired.)

Last Updated ( Wednesday, 18 October 2006 )
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The Primitive or Old School Baptists cling to the doctrines and practices held by Baptist Churches throughout America at the close of the Revolutionary War. This site is dedicated to providing access to our rich heritage, with both historic and contemporary writings.