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HOLDER’S FIRST NEGATIVE


Holder (to Nichols): Here is your tablet.

Nichols: Thank you.

Holder: Brethren Moderators, Mr. Nichols, Ladies and Gentlemen: I am delighted to come before this great concourse of people, and to reply to the ridiculous speech the gentleman has just made. He got to some of the things which entered into the discussion about the last five minutes of his speech.

I want to notice some of the things mentioned. Concerning what I said about faith when I said, “faith is not a work,” but that faith works: he misrepresented me there by saying that I said, “faith is a work.” The very thing I was trying to tell you, and did tell you, I said, “Faith is NOT a work, but faith works by love.” (Gal. 5:6.)

I want to say one thing right here: Now get it please: when you get this book, and come to the places where, he has charged Holder with saying certain things, I want you to turn back and see what Holder said. If you do not get his misrepresentations, you write me, and i shall pay for the book. he knows he mis­represented me.

Very well: he says that “some believe through their word” (Jn. 17:20-21), and that I deny it. Who said anything about peo­ple not believing through the word? Or believing the gospel under the sound of the gospel? Who said anything about there not being a difference between the word translated “be­lieve” and “believeth,” the verb forms, and then the noun “faith?” The expression we were dealing with is in Eph. 2:8, where it is said, “For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast.” And if he could prove there that faith was a work of the sinner, he would have a flat contra­diction of the expression of the apostle. What is it that is not of works? “Salvation” is the subject. And salvation is not by works. But that which saves is by “grace through faith.” There is the expression.

He is defeated. He knows it and he never gets over it. You know the reason why he did not go into the subject under discussion? He killed himself last night — pulled the trigger and shot the gun, and committed “suicide.”

Audience: Laughter.

Holder: When he said, “I make my appeal to the spiritual! mind.” Mind springs from life. There cannot be a spiritual mind without the spiritual life from which it springs. His proposition says these conditions are to be met by the alien sinner. And, if he should have answered it the other way he would have the same difficulty! Because it says, “The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” This is all the mind the alien sinner has. He is the first debater I have met that answered the question. I gave him a dollar and have told several that it was worth a hundred dollars! I have him tied! He is feeling bad!

“Faith is a work?” Faith is not a work, Sir. Faith works! That is what the Bible says, and I am right on the line.

Now, that argument last night; I wanted him to sleep good last night. You did not think I would. I said his “argument”—he made no arguments. Here is what Nichols left out in Gal. 3:16: “To Abraham and to his seed were the promises made.” Gal. 3:26, “His Son, Jesus (not Nichols) was sent” and was to turn them from iniquities. So, “Repent and be converted” the blessings were “the times of refreshing.” I shall quote it:

“Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing come from the Lord.” (Acts 3:19.) “Repent and be baptized, or you will go to hell.” See? That word there says “times.” Now, how many “times” does he have the sinner saved? Why, every time he repents! And then, he said last night, (giving verses 22 and 23) that these same people were in covenant relationship with God. (Verse 25.) Did it unthoughtedly — I am glad to connect that up for him! In the same chapter.

The Son of God is the one who does the seeking and saving. And you do not believe he will finish the work. And this is the reason why you turn to something else! Nichols, you and all the preachers in your fraternity and all the help you have by them, never moved a finger to help the Lord do anything. God pity the people until they can see we need God’s help! He does not need our help.

“I am come—--” singular, personal pronoun “I,” “I am come to seek and to save that which is lost.” Now, if it should have said, “I have sent you, “look what a big savior you would have. He is not willing to risk Jesus—this is his trouble. He is out on a crutch, and cannot make the first step! The first step is faith, and he does not seem to have it.

Jno. 12:47 “Came not to judge the world, but to save the world.” Well, if he came to do that, you do not believe he will, and this is the reason why you fail to deal with the word “world.” Any business man in this congregation, or any man who has studied the Bible as a minister, should know the word “world” in the Bible, or its commercial or general use, rarely ever has its universal or broad use of the word in its aggregate meaning, like “the universe, the stars, the planetary world, the earth, and all created things.” Then he wants to differ with me when I say that the ‘elect’ “world” will be saved! Read your Bible and take that word and the definition of it; I believe what Primitive Baptists teach about it—because they are eminently right.

1 Tim. 2:6, “Who gave himself a ransom for all.” (Nichols threw on the brakes!) But—“to be testified in due time.” Is it going to be? He does not believe a word of it!

The unbeliever “shall not see life.” (Jno. 3:36.) Well, why in the world are you going around trying to show it to him? The Bible says he shall not see it! He can see what you teach, because you do not preach the truth.

Rom. 11:32, “If mercy upon all” of Adam’s race, tell this audience about the untaught heathen. He has said in this debate more than one time that the untaught heathen will land in hell. This is mercy: see? Let me draw you a picture here.

(To Moderator: Call my attention in fifteen minutes.)

I see in my imagination a mother in the land of heathendom. I see a great family of children born to the mother and father in the land of heathendom. And by the way, in this modern age of ours, (and I happen to have noticed some records on what I am talking about); in this modern age of ours there are about 5,000 different languages and dialects in the world; and our Bible has been translated in near 2,000 of those lan­guages and dialects. Our English Bible or the English trans­lation, Wycliffe‘s Bible, was translated in about 1380 or 1381. Now, we are told there are more English-speaking people in the world today than any other tongue spoken by man. For over 1300 years the English-speaking world went to hell without any chance! And then the scarcity of Bibles—they would then have cost you a fortune back in the beginning of the New Tes­tament times. And preachers could not preach Bible truth in languages they were unfamiliar with. That is not all: over thirteen hundred millions of people in the world today have never heard the gospel . . . just a little over one-third of the population of the world. This man with the cold-hearted doc­trine he teaches, and thrusts at me about the “elect few” comes up here and tells you that I have a narrow doctrine. By the way: I am informed on yours, and sufficiently to not agree—it is more than I can believe. He tells you that mother does not have a Chinaman‘s chance. Maybe that little baby in her arms dies, and goes to heaven because it is embraced in the love of God (as all infants are who die in infancy); but she cannot go there. She must say good-bye for the last time! And that is not all: he ties over thirteen-hundred millions of people this evening, in the presence of this intelligent audience, to an unbroken and an unbreakable chain. He says, “Repent, believe, and be baptized, or you go to hell.” When those poor people cannot repent, they cannot believe, they cannot confess, and they cannot he baptized! I am not going to misrepresent you, Sir. I dare you to get up here and say they can be saved!

Well, Cornelius did have faith before he heard the gospel. The “heathen that was justified by faith”—“preached before the gospel unto Abraham saying, In thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed,” they are embraced in it. The apostle Paul (and he admitted it: he unwittingly admitted that Cornelius had faith before Peter preached to him! He unwittingly admitted Paul had faith before Ananias preached to him! And when you did, you tied your hands!) Then, Sir, in order to give it all to me, he runs from his proposi­tion and it falls over in my lap, and he said, “I cannot reach the carnal minded.” And that is the only kind on earth you have till you get to the child of God because—“to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” (Rom. 8:6.)

But let us see a little further: I do not answer his argu­ment, he says! He never makes one, only just the chapter and verse in part, leaving off arguments. “Not to that which is of the law, but that which is of the faith of Abraham.” Where is your alien sinner, Mr. Nichols?

1 Tim. 1:16. Here he dives into the text and gets the last part of it again. “Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Christ might shew forth all long-suffering for a pat­tern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life ever­lasting.” (1 Tim. 1:16.) And verse 15 says, “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.” He did not give all the lesson; he did not want you to find it as it is.

St. Jno. 6:40, “Everyone who believes may have life.” Why, he says some of them that believe, repent, confess, and are baptized go to hell! Rev. 21:8, “The fearful, and unbeliev­ing, and the abominable, and murderers, and whore-mongers, and sorcerers, and the idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire.” Nichols, this is enough to make you be a little careful!

Holder’s Moderator: Answer his question, “Were you saved when the blood was shed.”

Holder: “When was the blood shed for me?” he asked me that question last night. “When was the blood shed for you?” Look how silly that is! How many times did Jesus shed his blood? Does this man believe that Jesus sheds his blood every time he baptizes a person?

I have the time from here; I have noticed his points given. But I want to say a little something about the infant question: I do not think the God he is trying to describe to you knows who the ‘elect’ are, neither the ‘non-elect.’ I will tell you, however: there never has been a child of God on earth—there never has been a child of God in the Methodist church, the Presbyterian church, or any of these sectarian orders, or in his church, but that will be saved. (Or, I should say, in Mr. Campbell‘s church: he might say, “I do not have a church;” well, Mr. Campbell had one and he left it in your hands, and you are trying to see to the perpetuity of the church of Campbell: but it is suffering right now, and I mean to make it suffer until I make my closing speech.) He said he wants me to talk about those infants that went down in the flood. You know what his position is? And I will apologize if he says I am wrong. He makes the destruction of the flood and the saving of Noah and the eight souls an analogy of heaven and hell. (If I am wrong, I apologize.) If that is an analogy of hell, Sir, who preaches infant’s to hell? I am not going to charge it to him: there is no one who could believe that ridiculous idea, that in­fants die and go to hell. You fellows quit charging it on Old Baptists—they never believed it! And they are not going to teach it.

Does he understand the doctrine of election? I gave him this last night: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ, according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love,” and so on. Now just above this: “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Who’s Lord? Paul’s Lord. The “saints” at Ephesus, and the “faithful in Christ Jesus.” Now sir, whether you agree to it or not: if you are one of the faithful in Christ Jesus, election goes too far back for you to make it conditional, unless you get up here and say you did something before the election took place. ‘Sir, you brought this up, and knowing we are not debating election.

“Why is baptism the most necessary sacrament? Answer: because without baptism no one can be saved.” Question 537 —“What is Baptism?” “Baptism is the sacrament in which by water and the word we are cleansed from all sins.” Ques­tion 539—” Why do you say that in baptism we are cleansed from all sins?” Answer: “Because in baptism original sin and all other sins committed before baptism are forgiven.” Now, whom do you ‘suppose these questions and answers came from? Mr. Nichols? They came from Papal Rome, and there is where you get it. That is written in the Catechism young Catholics read in studying the primary principles of the Ro­man Catholic doctrine. I quote Campbell‘s expression: “An ef­ficacy is ascribed to water which it does not possess: as certainly as an efficacy is ascribed to the blood which it does not possess. If blood can whiten and cleanse a garment, certainly water can wash away sins. There is, then, a transferring of the effi­cacy of the blood to the water, and a transferring of efficacy of water to the blood.” I give you the definition of efficacy in part: “To accomplish; power to produce effect;” (now get it): “transubstantiation of water to blood,”—Campbellism! “Transubstantiation of bread and wine to the body and blood of Jesus Christ,” Catholicism! It is Catholicism re-vamped!

The alien sinners do not meet certain conditions to secure, salvation from sins, because they are said to be dead in sins; (Eph. 2:1-2.) God quickens them into life. The sinner is said to be in the flesh, and cannot please God. (Rom. 8:8.) “So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God; but you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you.”

In the state of alienation both Jew and Gentile are “all under sin.” (Rom. 3:9.) Not one of them is righteous. (Verse 10.) There is none who understands, none seek God, and not one who does good. (Verses 11-12.) Now listen: this is not my word. I am giving you the eminent apostle Paul in the third chapter of the Roman letter’ “Not in their throat, not in their tongue, not in their feet, not in their mouth, not in their ways, no fear of God before their eyes. They are said to be blind, to be deaf, to be dead in sins”; there is the condition the alien is in. They “are like the deaf adder” — here David says (Psa. 58:4-5), “They are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ears, which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming ever so wisely. They call evil, good;” notice here please: “They call evil good, and good evil; and put darkness for light, and light for darkness; they put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.” (Isa. 5:20.) Now here is what Nichols does: Friend Nichols goes right the other way from the Bible with his description of such ones, and captures them by his powerful theory that action precedes life! You talk about something ridiculous! I want you to get this! That action precedes life; the deaf that cannot hear must hear; the blind that cannot see, must see; good comes from bad, and bad comes from good; water for blood, works for grace; where none is good, some are said to be good; where none seek after God, there are some actually seeking after God! And where the mouth is full of cursing and bitterness, over on the other side he makes the good confession, and he takes him and baptizes him. (I want to give you this expression: “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, God dwelleth in him, and he in God,” 1 Jno. 4:15.) Let us go a little further: “Evil is good: bitter is sweet: darkness is light: dead means sick: up means down: down means up: in means out: over means under: and under means over.” God pity such thing going under the name of ‘Christianity.’

A search for the knowledge and right understanding of the mystery of God is not out of Christ. Col. 2:2-3, “That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love and unto all riches and in full assurance of understanding to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; “in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge; . . . for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the God-heard bodily; and ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principalities and power: in whom ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.” Now, here is what he wants: he wants you to “put off” this before you are “circumcised in the heart.” And we put off these things “by the circumcision of the heart,” not without it. (Col. 2:9-11.)

“Grace reigns through righteousness by Jesus Christ to eternal life.” (Rom. 5:21.) I want to call your attention right here, Ladies and Gentlemen, to something which is very pertinent. I do not know whether he is going to introduce and go into the issue on baptism or not. I want to say this: I met Sterl A. Wat­son a little over a year ago at Camden, Arkansas: these gentle­men do not like the Old Baptists on baptism. You know what he did? He never mentioned baptism until the last four min­utes of his last speech in the debate. Now these gentlemen tell you that miracles are over: but it is a genuine ‘miracle’ when they fail to bring it up! But friend Nichols has mentioned it. (By the way, he is the best debater you have.)

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?” — I care not what text you quote on bap­tism, Sir, I am ready for you on it! “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?” (Rom. 6:1-3.) That is a question. “Therefore “—there is your word that determines a change now, for this reason; that determines the difference.

But he said Holder agrees on the word “water” in Gal. 3:26-27. The word “water,” Sir, is not in that text. And here is a man who is baptized “into Jesus Christ” and he “puts on Christ:” but how? That word, “put on Christ” scholars tell us it is about the same thing as putting on an insignia, or like a soldier putting on a uniform. But he wants his subject for baptism to put on the clothes before he is born. So the ridiculousness of it, of course. I say to the child of God, every one who loves God and “by one Spirit has been baptized into one body,” who is in Christ: you should put on Christ by showing this in a picture.


I have asked him the question about “water;” he gives me the dodge, he does not answer it — he gets into it just like ho did last night! Some one did not want me to press Brother Nich­ols! I have met him before! You cannot get him to take a, posi­tion without “pressing” him! He is as afraid of Old Baptist doctrine as a bear is in the woods with a gun turned loose from every side! I have met him before! And he says he has met me. Yes, and we are in a good humor — and going to stay that way.

Therefore, ye are buried with Christ” — let me give you an argument by illustration; I hope every person in this au­dience may see it: “If any man be in Christ, he is a new’ crea­ture. Old things are passed away, and behold, all things are’ become new.” (2 Cor. 5:17.) “We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.” (Eph. 2:10.) Now such are IN CHRIST, and CHRIST IS IN THEM. He that keepeth his commandment “dwelleth in God, and God in him.” (1 Jno. 3:24.) I know this is not an alien sinner! All right: now Christ dwells in that person; so he is “buried with Christ.” But Nichols buries the sinner to get with Christ! There is the difference! Can you see that? If you can, you can see my position! Now, he might make a play on the word “therefore.” You know, that word is used in the Bible—I believe I will just give it to you in the Bible: “I married a wife, THERE­FORE I cannot come.” Why did he not come? He had mar­ried a wife and for this reason he could not come. He had been baptized into Jesus Christ, by one Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13), been baptized into Jesus Christ and into his death; therefore (for this reason) he ought to be baptized—or “buried with Christ by baptism.” I will debate four days on Romans sixth chap­ter, and Gal. 3:27 or Acts 2:38. You gentlemen quit bragging about it till you answer it.

Moderator: “Time up.”     

Holder: Thank you.

Last Updated ( Sunday, 11 February 2007 )
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