Dear Friends,

Here is a very interesting thing--a personal letter from Elder Wilson Thompson to his son, Elder Gregg Thompson. Elder John Clark who published the letter in Zion's Advocate, asks some pertinent questions about things contained in the letter, questions I would like answered. But, alas! Both Elder Thompsons and Elder Clark are with the Lord, so the answers will certainly be long in coming.

DM

ZION'S ADVOCATE - February 4, 1860

We make the following extract of a letter from Elder Wilson Thompson addressed to his son, Elder G. M. Thompson, and published in the "Herald of Truth," which shows very conclusively how he stands towards the Arian party of the present day. The Arians, on the occasion referred to, were as much puzzled by the question propounded to them by Eld. T. as their "illustrious predecessors" were in the days of our Immanuel, when he interrogated them concerning David’s testimony of the Son of God :-" if David in Spirit called him Lord, how is be his Son?" (Matt. xxii. 41, 46), and they answered, consequently, in a similar way-by SILENCE. But there is a part of Eld. T’s. communication which we do not understand, and therefore would respectfully turn upon him his address to Johnson and his party, before propounding to them the several questions found in his letter, and we hope he will enlighten us upon the subject; as we can truly say that we desire to know what he means. For until we understand him, we cannot tell whether we believe what he has written or not. The point about which we seek information is what he says upon the subject of the "ADAMIC MAN." He says "I have no warfare with the ADAMIC MAN, if by him you mean, the man of flesh and bones, muscles and nerves, and mind and soul," &c." If by this Adamic man, we would again inquire, is meant the "OLD MAN" as defined by Paul, which is corrupt with his deeds, we cannot conceive how it is that a Christian has no warfare with him, nor how it is that he has no warfare with the FLESH, since the apostle says, ‘‘ With the MIND I myself serve the law of God; but with the FLESH the law of sin," (Rom. vii. 25), and another apostle admonishes us to " abstain from FLESHLY LUSTS, which war against the soul". (1 Pet. ii. 11). If we have read the Scriptures correctly and understandingly, and have an experience in harmony with the teachings therein, the parties to this warfare will be saved; that Christ died for, and therefore will as certainly redeem the BODY as the SOUL-that be will redeem his people FROM THE POWER OF THE GRAVE; for as our bodies are embraced in the PURCHASED POSSESION, we have the assurance that he will CHANGE OUR VILE BODIES, &c. We cannot see how sin in itself can be detached from the SINNER, and therefore embodied as a distinct man. That Christ has put away the sins of his people by the sacrifice of himself, and will in due time effectually cleanse them from iniquity, and wash them and make them white in his blood, we most assuredly believe, and rejoice in that assurance, yet we have no knowledge of sin, of its existence, except in connection with the sinner. If this should meet the eye of Eld. Thompson, (be is not a subscriber to the Advocate, and never has been,) we shall be pleased to hear from him upon the subject. (John Clark)

DEAR CHILDREN: With feelings of deep parental affection we acknowledge the receipt of your kind letter, We feel much comfort in hearing of your good health.- We should have replied sooner, but the Associations were near at hand and we have been constantly on the move, and no time to write. Whitewater Association met with the Shiloh church, Hancock county Ind. on the 2^nd Friday in August. The session was all in peace, and unanimity and harmony, and all the churches reported peace.

On Sunday J. F. Johnson preached his doctrine of non-regeneration, and said that the words, "a man must be born again," did nut mean a Second birth, or that the child born had ever been born before. Then he said that the spiritual seed or child was preserved in Christ its spiritual head as a woman preserves her fruit in a jar, so that no taint or sour could ever tinge it in the least degree. This holy immortal, incorruptible, spiritual child was the elect, and thus was chosen in Christ, and was in union with him in eternal oneness, and this Seed was never in Adam, never fell, and was never tainted with sin in the least degree. The Adamic man, he said was quite of another family, of another stock, of another kindred, and was not in any relation to Christ, the spiritual head of the church, nor was any change effected on any part at this Adamic man by regeneration or the birth of the spirit, &c. The most of the people left their seats and scattered through the woods while he was at it, and I have not heard of one person in the bounds of this Association who believed this doctrine.

Lebanon Association met in Allen county, Ind., 10 miles west of Ft. Wayne, over our hundred mites from where ours sat.- We went to it. Some little sparring in the business matters and some difference of doctrine appeared on the stand. Evidently, the most of the preachers of Concreek and Lebanon Associations are deeply in Johnson’s doctrine.

On Sunday night Joseph Johnson, son of J. F. Johnson, took up the new doctrine in full. He is a talented young man. He took the same position of his father, and said that this spiritual seed was the elect-that God never elected arty one of Adam’s race-that to be born again did not mean to be born a second time. He roundly asserted that no part of the Adamic man, neither soul, body, nor spirit, mind nor matter, nor any faculty belonging to him, was changed in the least degree, except as they were partially controlled and held in check by surrounding circumstances exercised by the indivelency of this new man. This he said was revealed to every Christian by the spirit, and to none but Christians.

After meeting Elders A. B. Nay, J. A. Johnson, Tyler, J. A. Williams, and other elders, with many brethren present, I put many questions to them, all in the following manner;

I have heard much preaching of late which if I understand I do not believe.- But I am old, and my mind and memory is fast failing me, and I cannot learn new words, names and ideas as readily as formerly, and I may not properly understand or comprehend your meaning, and perhaps if I did I might believe it. I do therefore wish to know fully what you do wish to preach, and then I can say positively whether I believe it or not. All I can now say is, if I do understand and comprehend your meaning I do not believe the doctrine.-- Brother Johnson this night has told us that this is the very point, which God by his spirit has revealed to every Christian and to no others, and I well knowing that it has never been revealed to me, if I understand it, I am cut off. It is therefore a matter of great importance to me to know whether I do understand your meaning or not, for if I do new understand your real meaning, I do not believe it, and it has never been revealed to me by the spirit either in the word or any part of my experience. This brings me before you now as an earnest enquirer after truth, and not as a debater. I simply wish to know what you mean, and whether I correctly comprehend your meaning or not. Therefore, please to answer some quest ions plainly to the point:

1st. What do you mean by the Adamic man? Do you mean the man that God created with his body, mind and all included, and called them Adam with all his descendants in him seminally-are these all your Adamic man or men?

Answer-Yes.

2nd. If this union was between a spiritual, immortal, incorruptible seed and head, could it embrace any of the non elect strangers of Adam’s race, and effect their redemption; and if the spiritual seed was never involved or tainted by any of its effects, did it ever need any redemption, and if the Adamic seed was not in the Union, and of course could not be redeemed, was there anything redeemed by Christ?

No one answered.

3rd. Must I not be prepared to renounce all that I have preached or written, or experienced through the first seventy years of my life in order to embrace this new system, if it be a new system?

No answer.

4th. If no part or any of the Adamic man is changed or born of the spirit and no part or faculty of the spiritual, immortal man ever needed any change or birth of the spirit, what man is it that must be born again, or is anything born again, either of the old or new man?

5th. Does not this new system, only ten years old, lay the axe at the very root of the Bible, Christian experience, and all that we have ever preached or believed?

Answer-We have thought much about this.

6th. If no part of the Adamic man, soul, body, mind nor matter, attribute or affection, is either changed or born by the spirit and never will be until the resurrection, what goes with it in God’s people from the death of the body until the resurrection?

No answer.

7th. Brother Johnson this night has beautifully described a converted sinner, mourning on the verge of despair, under a load of conscious guilt, and crying, " God be merciful to me a sinner." Was this the sinless spiritual child or was it the unchanged, unborn Adamic man, or what man was it?

No answer.

8th. Did any of you, when you went before the church, to seek its fellowship and admission to its ordinances, say, "friends, I wish to join this church; I have never met with any change in soul, mind, body or affections, or anything else. Therefore as your preachers declare, that neither themselves nor any of you, nor any of Adam’s race, are changed in any part, and I know I am not; I therefore wish to join your church." Did you so tell the church and be received, or would you now receive such an applicant? If not, why preach such doctrine?

No answer.

9th. Can any of you tell me of any benefit resulting from the life, death, burial and resurrection of Christ, except the resurrection of the body, according to your doctrine?

No answer.

10th Since there is no change in the sinner, and the scriptural man has no sin, is not the doctrine of pardon, forgiveness of sin, justification, with the exercise of mercy, of grace, all a nullity, since the Adamic man can never in this world enjoy any of them, and the sinless spiritual man does not need them?

Here they began to ask me the following questions

1st. Do you believe that the soul is changed in regeneration?

Answer-I believe the Scriptures I will not set up metaphysics against metaphysics; your system is all metaphysical, mine is all positive scripture. We many differ widely about what the soul is. I believe the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, or purges the consciences to serve the living God, and so cleanses the heart from an evil conscience. I believe the heart is circumcised to love the Lord God. I believe that the eyes of the understanding, which were darkened and blinded, are enlightened and opened so that they may see. I believe they who were dead are quickened. I believe the dead hear the voice of the Son of God and live-call this soul, mind, spirit, or what you will, there is a change, and this change is not effected in the living, sinless, immortal, incorruptible man, but on the blind, dark, dead, corrupt, pointed heart, the evil conscience, and this is some part of the man. So there is a change, and this is all I contend for, and my bible declares it and I believe it.

2nd. If any part of the Adamic man is changed, what causes the warfare you daily feel?

Answer-We should call things by their proper name. Your new doctrine has new names unknown to the Bible. Your Adamic man is a new name. I have no warfare with the Adamic man, if by him you mean the man of flesh and bones, muscles and nerves, and mind and soul. I owe this man much, and many duties, and I should do all I can to sustain it, and also my Adamic neighbors around me, to clothe, feed, warm, visit them in sickness, &c. This man is the temple for the Holy Ghost to dwell in. God will save this body, this Adamic man, and I owe it my duty as a Christian according to the scriptures. My daily warfare is not with the Adamic man, whom God made, whom Christ redeemed, whom God will raise from the dead and eternally save. But sin and its train of evils and lusts, which war against the soul, these things make the body of the sins of the flesh. This man of sin, this son of perdition, this earthly sensual, devilish thing, which is of its father the devil, the very child of hell, an enemy of all good. God never made it. Christ never redeemed it and it will never be saved nor raised with the just. I owe it no duties I may do all I can to kill it, to starve it, to put it off, to crucify it. It lurks in the flesh the Adamic man, groans under the load and bondage of this corruption, pains, fevers, palsy aid lunacy, and innumerable woes and sufferings prey upon the body, mind, soul and spirit of the Adamic man, and Wars against the soul. This is the sin that dwells in me so that I cannot do the things that I would. This is the enemy of the Adamic man under which it groans, being burdened, and this is the belligerent and vigilant foe against every maim who is renewed in the spirit of his mind, and is led by the spirit, with his mind to serve the law of Christ, is in this incessant warfare. This is my warfare with this man of sin, and not with my Adamic man-no, but with the trains of evil, which lurk in, effect and punish him, and constantly keep up wars without and fightings within. When I call things by their proper names, this is the Christian warfare. But the Adamic man, soul, mind, saint and body shall be saved, but this old man of sin will never be saved. But God’s people are redeemed, and will be all finally saved from all this evil. Here the talk ended.

Connersville, Ind., Sept. 14, 1859.